Tag Archives: Daemons of Chaos

Warhammer 8th Edition – 2nd Game Findings


There are about three or four things I can think of writing a post for today, however, I really feel that I should follow up by telling you all about the second game of Warhammer we played using the new edition of the rules. This means, of course, that I will now forget the amazing topics I have selected for posting later in the week, no doubt they would have been chock-full or profound insights into the gaming world and its community, I apologise now for depriving you of such unbridled awesomesauce.

From the picture gracing the beginning of this post you can probably guess what I was fielding. I knocked up a 2000pts Daemons list while Gribblin penned a new Happy Tree Friends list. It wasn’t massively dissimilar from the list I took against against the Vampires but this one had a Treeman in it, not that Gribblin has the best of luck with Treemen in general (a trend to be repeated this time around). I came up with a list that used what I had to hand, it ended up being suprisingly effective, here is what I took;

Herald of Tzeentch with Master of Sorcery (Lore of Death) and Spellbreaker – General

Herald of Slaanesh Battle Standard Bearer with Standard of Sundering and Siren Song

Masque of Slaanesh

25 Daemonettes with Full Command and the Siren Standard

20 Bloodletters with Full Command and Icon of Endless War

10 Flesh Hounds

5 Flamers

3 Blood Crushers with Standard and Icon of Endless War

It was compact, with hindsight my spell lore choice was wrong and I might as well have not taken the banner because we totally forgot it was there for the whole battle. Our scenario was to kill each other (nice and simple) and the deployment was the random rolls. Luckily I ended up with my entire army either on my left flank or in the centre, so I naturally turtled my army together with only the Blood Crushers heading out towards the right of the centre protecting that flank around the Haunted Mansion in the middle of the table. Gribblin rolled for his stuff and everything pretty much ended up in the middle other than the Treeman who had to be delpoyed on my right flank far away from everything.

Through the course of the battle the Haunted Mansion did more damage to my troops than the Wood Elf shooting (D6 Str1 hits, I rolled average for hits but nearly every hit I rolled a 6 for the wound roll). I got off Purple Sun once which ended up clearing line of sight through a unit I wasn’t aiming for so the Herald got peppered by arrows in the following turn. The Bloodletters got flank charged by Wild Riders and sat there for a few turns before my rampaging Daemonettes arrived to help them out. To be honest the Daemonettes were the stars of the show, the Flamers didn’t do too badly as they rolled oodles of shots every turn, but the Slaanesh troops just tore things apart. Always Strikes First is really nasty and the fact I took a big block of 25 helped minimise the impact of casualties. They ripped apart Treekin, massacred the Wild Riders and then ate through Glade Guard. Sure they are only Strength 3 but the sheer number of attacks is ridiculous and then they are re-rolling their misses and dice just mount up, with Wood Elves having next to no armour to speak of, it just made things better for the Daemons.

I held back my Herald which kind of gimped him, Lore of Death has some pretty low ranges on its spells so didn’t get to make much use of the fact he knew all the spells. Overall magic can have a much bigger impact on the game but if things go wrong it can hurt you just as much, it’s a very risky business nowadays but if you have access to a level 4 Wizard I can’t see a hugely compelling reason not to take one. With the bonus to cast and dispel you don’t really need support either, sharing your pool dice with another wizard using smaller bonuses doesn’t see all that good. For armies like Daemons the Battle Standard bearer is now a must. Even though we forgot the banner I gave to mine the re-rolls on Instability tests was great, even when I rolled and eleven, re-rolled and got an eleven again. 8th really did give the BSB a boost and I expect them to be much more prevalent than they used to be. Certain armies always have benefitted from one but with the current changes I feel that almost every army will try and cram one in.

Little things like being able to move your units backwards provides you with options that were not really there before, this allows you to expand your thinking when moving your troops, there isn’t just the option of trudging forwards. If you think you might just be within range for something to charge you, now you can shuffle back a few inches and, barring a lucky dice roll, be odds on to avoid it and gain the bonus for charging yourself in the next turn.

I’m not sure about the new Terrain rules though, I like the random number of elements there are on the table as well as the new scenarios to play, however, not knowing if a wood is really a wood, or the chance that walking near that building could lose you half a unit just seems a mite too unpredicatable. I know they are trying to show off just what the Warhammer world is like, but these funnies and random elements do not translate to a game where you are trying to test each other. I’ll continue with it for a while but some of the elements (haunted mansion for instance) can have too great an impact on things.

Overall, two games in I am enjoying the new version of Warhammer, I pick up the rest of the models to make my 3ooopts army this Friday. Hopefully some hours of gluing various bits to my personal body parts will mean that I then end up with something I can chuck on the table and have a go properly with an aarmy list I’ve worked out and bought to with the new edition in mind. I can then play something while painting the rest of my War of the Ring units.

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Warhammer 8th Edition – Army Power Levels Explored Part 1


THE collective wargaming world has now had, more or less, a week in which to digest the changes that have been made to the Warhammer fantasy rules. While certainly a lot of the Internet-based doom-mongery that prevailed before the books release has died down there are still the die-hard few that have consigned Warhammer to its grave and will stop playing. However, for the vast majority of players this new edition has been a breath of fresh air, it may not be perfect, there may be some tweaks needed to some of the army books down the road but overall I am actually excited about the changes that have been brought in and look forward to getting hands-on with the game at some point. With our gaming groups commitment to War of the Ring this may be a little further down the line, I know Servitob is still waiting patiently for me to complete my Easterlings.

What the new edition has also done is shift the power of various armies. There are a lot of forum threads around right now discussing the merits of the armies and what “tier” they are in with regards to their perceived tournament effectiveness. This new set of rules hasn’t just affected what armies have the advantage, it has also affected people’s thinking on certain units and some magic items that were previously considered sub-par now have a valid use and others that were must haves are now going to disappear entirely.

What is clear from what I am reading and also from search results generating traffic right here, is that people are very much concerned about the power levels of the various armies. I’d like to think that people pick a force based on the look of the models and the background of the army, not solely on the perceived “ZOMGWTFBBGOMGAWESOMESAUCEROFLSTOMPROFLCOPTERCHUCHU!!!11!!!!!!!!amillion!!!!!!!!!29!!!!!!!1!!!!!!!” power scale. I know that for some people winning is the only option, the idea of having a fun game with your mates is nothing compared to preparing your latest and greatest list to rape the sanity of all who you face at the next tournament.

As Gribblin has already given his thoughts on the rules themselves and I echo what he says, I thought I’d spend today’s post going through the armies and offering my own opinions on how they fare in the new edition. I would ask you all to remember that these are my opinions and that therefore they may differ from your own, this is not a problem for me, neither should it be for you. That’s the wonderful thing about opinions, we are all entitled to our own. Let’s begin;

Beastmen

When the Beasts were released right at the end of 7th edition it was a widely held belief that they sucked ass. This was not an erroneous belief, everyone was aware that 8th would probably give them a bit of a boost and it has. Sure they are still not going to be an army that is going to wipe the boards with everyone but as bigger blocks of infantry are now more desirable so the Beastmen profit. Minotaurs got a big boost with the addition of Monstrous Infantry and the new Stomp attack, likewise some of the Monsters now profit from Thunderstomp, the new Lore of Beasts gives more power to the Bray Shamans and the changes to the percentage system means there is nothing to stop you taking a Beastlord and a Great Bray Shaman.

The usefulness of the Battle Standard Bearer also should help out with all the psychology tests and with big blocks of infantry you should be able to work out some Steadfast combats on a re-rollable leadership 9.

Bretonnia

The Bretonnians are somewhat of a quandary in the new edition. While they still benefit from their lance formation giving them ranks only 3 wide and the fact that the damsels now can see quite happily out of their Knight bunkers for spells using the improved Lore of Life, cavalry itself isn’t the all-conquering force we were used to. With a greater focus on infantry those Knights are going to be grinding out long combats with large blocks of footmen, something they will suffer for. Knights want to charge in, do a load of damage and bug out, something which has become much harder depending on your opponent. The Damsel’s magic resistance will also stack with Lady’s Blessing though so any unit of Knights with a spell-lady in there is going to have a 5+ save against direct damage spells, not bad at all really and while you can bulk out your army with oodles of Men-at-Arms that’s not really what the Brets are about. Although their Trebuchet is now the most powerful stone thrower in the game.

Daemons of Chaos

Everyone’s love-to-hate army of 7th edition changes quite a lot under the new rules. There are many who believe that the Daemons are done for, having lost all their power, while others are saying that while they have taken a hit to some of their builds they still remain a force to be reckoned with. The problems that Daemons have are no different from what they used to be, a lack of armour and all round low toughness on their core troops and the fact you pay a premium for those troops as well. Now that Fear no longer auto-breaks units from combat they are going to be in protracted combats for longer, with the steadfast rule being more easily available for virtually any opposing infantry unit, the new and improved Battle Standards and supporting attacks Daemons are going to suffer. However, they still benefit from usually high initiative and some decent special rules, especially when Heralds come into the picture, although these guys can get sniped out of units now. Plaguebearers are now almost useless due to the combination of Ward saves and Regeneration and their appalling initiative. Greater Daemons are still monsters (literally) in combat and can Thunderstomp as well as using their impressive profiles but are easier to pick out with cannons that can now pre-measure. ASF Daemonettes are still going to be sick in combat though, providing you can get them there. Tzeenthcian heralds with Master of Sorcery are now on the most useful spell casters in the whole game though. I still think that a properly constructed Daemon army will be tough to beat but the cheese lists of the past are exactly that, the past.

Dark Elves

The Dark Elves were probably the number one army under 7th edition. Cheap units that can chuck out a load of attacks, cheaper monsters that were hard to beat and a pretty tasty personal spell lore with some ridiculous magic items. Not much has changed. You are still going to see nice blocks of infantry, sure the Shadestar probably will never be seen again and their FAQ has changed a few things related to their magic items but these guys are still going to be strong. Cheap blocks of Spearmen are going to be a feature and the second rank being able to fire ranged weapons makes Repeater Crossbows even more deadly. Reaper bolt throwers might not feature as much, 2 wounds at T7 isn’t going to be that hard to kill now either. It is also possible for a High Sorceress as well as a Dreadlord to fit into 2000pts now too. Elves are still only T3 though and will still be outnumbered, they are going to want to really try to strip a unit away because of the number of return attacks they are going to be facing.

That’s it for Part 1 – there are fifteen armies to get through so rather than have one huge post I’ll be splitting this up into several Undead buccaneer friendly chunks.

Slaanesh Vs Vampire Counts – Expose


As part of the Uncharted Seas trial day (still gutted that I lost both of those games) I am now reporting on the events that transpired during the evening of that same day. We had 3 people there (myself included) during the day and then that went down to 2 of us in the evening when we had a 2000pt Warhammer game planned.

My friend and I have been battling back and forth over the past couple of months with our Chaos and Vampire Counts armies. Tweaking each one after the game and trying out new things along the way. Due to some luck on my part my all Cavalry Warriors of Chaos are 2-0 up in this rivalry. I knew that Mr. Vampire had gone and picked up a Varghulf and I had mentioned looking into a Shaggoth and dropping both my units of Chaos Hounds as they really are quite useless against Undead due to their poor leadership and the fact they are to secure my flanks and sit way outside of General Leadership range. I’d like to think I went one better! I still stuck with my Chaos but swapped things around to the Daemonic variety with an all Slaanesh army based on a strong core of Daemonettes.

I had picked up the Daemons book a while ago and have many models for this army, I never played it and was amazed by the uproar when the book first came out about how no-one would ever beat Daemons as the whole book was full of cheese and in general was overpowered. I had been thinking long and hard because rumours abounded about the Warriors of Chaos release and I knew that they’d zoom up my “must buy now” list as soon as they hit the shelves. So when they did I bought up some and my Daemons languished around and ended up on round bases for a couple games of 40k. With the Vampire threat around I wanted to try them out, not least because it would negate the Psychology part of the game. I can consistently roll LD+1 for every unit I own and any re-rolls always end up higher than the first set. In an effort to keep things exciting I went for mono God rather than stick with the expected Khorne/Tzeentch combination that people hate to come up against.

Now, I won’t give a full battle report, these are going to just be my observations about how the army worked. I’ll leave a proper battle report for when I take photos and notes. My list was as follows;

Keeper of Secrets – Lvl 3 Wizard with Torment Blade

Herald of Slaanesh – Battle Standard with Banner of -2 Leadership and Siren Song gift

The Masque

19 Daemonettes with Full Command and Banner of Ecstasy

20 Daemonettes with Full Command and Banner of Ecstasy

20 Daemonetters with Full Command

5 Seekers of Slaanesh with Musician

2 Fiends of Slaanesh

More models than my Warriors army and not a lot slower really considering how much stuff has a 20″ threat range. I’ll give a run down of how each unit performed, I already have an all Nurgle list planned for my next game to try that out. The Herald got slapped in with the 19 stron unit of Daemonettes.

Keeper – This guy is amazing, I love him to bits. Ok, I’ll admit his save is rubbish and is the only caster I have but he eats through stuff and being so fast makes him difficult to deal with, normally he wasn’t close enough to the Masque and Herald to benefit from Ld bombing for his Torment Blade but still, he took 2 wounds the whole game and ripped up some stuff. Expensive but worth it.

Herald – Worth the points and then some. Sitting in the middle of your opponents army with Always Strikes First on a unit with a load of attacks kept me around a lot longer than I had any right to be. This one unit survived four turns of being in combat before finally dropping to a horribly failed Instability test on the last turn… they will be making a comeback as I am very much thinking of sticking with mono -Slaanesh in the long run.The Sire song pulled in the Vargulf who got Combat Ressed to death leaving an entire flank of the Undead army without a Vampire to allow them to march. I’ll keep that in for sure but not sure how much more mileage I’ll get out of it now the trick has been displayed.

Masque – 90 points well spent. She killed a Vampire and Necromancer in close combat as well as stopping a Wraith unit and Banshee from going anywhere with her minus D3″ movement. That Wraith unit then got charged by a Daemonette unit and the rest is history. The rest of the time she was reducing the Vampire Lord and his unit with -2 Leadership. Although, I never did manage to kill the Lord to force crumbling…

Daemonette unit 2 & 3 – No ASF but still deadly on the charge and the Banner of Ecstasy means that I lost less wounds than I would normally do on my horrible Instability rolls (when I remembered that the unit had the banner that is). Unit 3 took a while to get back into the fight after seeing off the Wraiths but I know how much damage they can do if you leave them unchecked in your flank.

Seekers – These guys acted as a speed bump to the Black Knights who were a lot more expensive. Not the ideal target for them to go against but it meant that the flank of my army stayed safe while the Keeper got around the rear and caused problems. If I can get a flank or rear charge I am sure they will be awesome but the one round of combat they were in I rolled horribly and did my usual 10+ for their leadership test after it.

Fiends – I am going to split them up in my next game. They didn’t do a whole lot as I missed with most of their attacks for the one turn they made it into combat. I need more mileage with them to be able to come up with a valid conclusion.

The biggest weakness of this army is the toughness 3 dominance. You have Elves that at best have a 5+ save, even if it is a Ward save, you won’t be making many of those in a game. However, the army did prove surprisingly resilient and I liked how it played. It’s quick and gives your opponent multiple threats to have to look after, no-one likes a Greater Daemon roaming around the place.

The game ended up in a draw, mainly due to mistakes on my part playing with a new army, I believe that with a few of those mistakes undone (missing declaring charges for 2 units in a turn for instance) I’d have probably eeked out a minor Victory. Our games have always been bloody so far and this one was no exception, the combat Vampire Lord is solely responsible for wiping out my CR advantage over the last 2 turns by just how many he would kill in his return attacks and I had nothing that could declare a challenge, not that I would with anything other than the Greater Daemon and even that would be a risky prospect.

I have yet to try any Tzeentch or Khorne units and I have the feeling that when I do I’ll experience the “cheese” factor so many people have complained about the Daemons possessing.